1. Presentation and start of dialogue

1.1. Contextualization and conversation initiation

Iara Zanella begins by clarifying that she is the chief of staff of federal deputy Duarte Júnior.

Eric informs Iara that this is excellent, because what he wishes to expose is intended precisely for the deputy. He then proposes to explain the important points, and asks if he can record the conversation, explaining that the recording will serve:

– to keep a faithful record of your words,

– to be able to share them with your colleagues,

– and above all to transmit these elements to the Member as faithfully as possible, in order to avoid any unintentional deformation or forgetfulness.

 Iara accepts the recording.

1.2. Nature of the organization and form of action

Éric presents the Autistan Diplomatic Organization (https://Autistan.org), explaining that it is an international organization, non-Brazilian, No claims or demands.

He explains that the objective is to offer useful information to enrich reflection and improve public policies on autism and disability.

 Iara mentions the word "contributions", showing that you understand the meaning of the approach well.

1.3. The organization-specific contribution – the puzzle metaphor

Éric uses the metaphor of the puzzle to illustrate the possible contribution of his organization. He explains that, even though Brazil already has many elements to understand autism and know what to do or not to do in terms of public policies for autistic people, sometimes essential parts are missing.

The organization can offer new elements, sometimes structuring, whose addition allows you to rearrange, clarify and enrich the global understanding of autism, as well as appropriate public responses. These contributions can transform the overall vision, making it more coherent, understandable and useful for the people involved.

1.4. Notion of accessibility for autistic people with disabilities

Éric presents one of the fundamental points: The notion of accessibility for autistic people with disabilities (and, by extension, for all people with disabilities — or even for everyone).

He explains that accessibility is not limited to the material or physical aspect. It is, in its broadest sense, the real possibility of each one accessing a place, a service, a form, an opportunity (as a job, residence, leisure, culture etc.), or even one person.

There is accessibility whenever a person can access, in conditions equivalent to those of a person without disabilities, Any object, service or relationship, in the broadest sense of the term.

Conversely, there is inaccessibility when the person encounters inequality, impediment or difficulty of access — whether to enter, remain, fully participate in or effectively benefit from a venue, service, procedure or opportunity — while other people do not face these barriers.

In the case of autistic people with disabilities, It is important to clarify that accessibility must be thought of, First of all, depending on the specific characteristics of autism: The main difficulties are in communication and social relationships. Sensory aspects exist and can play a role, but they are not what most profoundly defines autism. So, accessibility must compensate for barriers to communication, social interaction and mutual understanding, Above all.

Observation: although all of this was not detailed during the conversation, It is important to clarify the notion of accessibility so that it can be understood in this broad and universal sense.

1.5. Terminological issues – "disability", "Special needs"

Éric mentions the problem of vocabulary, pointing out that certain terms, as "disability" ("disability"), They can be poorly received or even shocking, as he found in France.

He mentions other expressions, as "people with special needs" (which isn't necessarily the best), and highlights that the drafting of the future inclusion code in Brazil would be an ideal opportunity to review and improve these terms.

 Iara shares this point of view on the inadequacy of some terms.

1.6. Natural accessibility and social potential in Brazil

Éric makes a positive observation: despite the difficulties faced by Brazil, There is a form of natural social accessibility in Brazilian society, linked to people's kindness and humility.

He explains that this "good soil" human and social is an advantage for the country, but it needs to be consolidated and complemented with specific policies, adapted to the particularities of autism and disability, to ensure real equality of access.

 Iara mentions human warmth, which aligns with the idea of a positive social base.

Éric also mentions the "mongrel complex", according to which many Brazilians tend to underestimate themselves in relation to other countries (Northern Hemisphere), and considers that this view is unjustified.

1.7. Interest of international comparisons and exchanges

Éric emphasizes the interest of taking advantage of international experiences, in order to:

– avoid mistakes already made in other countries;

– not "reinventing the wheel";

– identify and disseminate practices that really work;

– bring pertinent ideas or examples to enrich national reflection.

International comparisons and exchanges are, so, very useful to advance effectively in the construction of inclusion policies.

1.8. Legislation and implementation – laws and strategy

Éric indicates that Brazil has the largest number of autism laws among the 18 Countries it has reviewed, but that often lacks an application program (sometimes called "strategy", although this term is not always well accepted).

Laws are indispensable ("The Backbone"), but it is crucial to complement them with texts or mechanisms that allow their concrete and adequate application.

 Iara approves the idea of strengthening the strategy and the operationalization of laws.

1.9. The fundamental distinction of autism: Nature vs. Specific disorders

Éric insists on an absolutely fundamental point: the need to distinguish autism as a nature of autism-specific disorders, also called autism spectrum disorders.

He explains that they are two joint notions, but distinct, and that confusion between them is one of the main obstacles to a good understanding of autism and effective policy-making.

Assimilating or reducing autism to disorders leads to considering only the difficulties or limitations, ignoring the qualities, autism's own strengths and potentials as a human nature.

This distinction, although it was not detailed during the conversation due to lack of time, should be highlighted in this report, because it conditions every pertinent approach to autism.

Éric informs that this differentiation was understood and considered useful by Chiara Servili, WHO autism expert, during a meeting in which she expressed agreement with this point, adding that this distinction is useful. (https://un.autistan.org)

1.10. Meeting proposal

 Iara proposes to organize a meeting (or seminar) to present these points to the deputy.

Éric indicates his preference for a meeting in a restricted format: That is, with few people, to favor a constructive and direct exchange of work.

 Iara explains that most parliamentary activities will be online the following week, due to multiple holidays this month, but that he will try to organize a contact between 22 and 25 April, or else in May.

Éric proposes to be informed by WhatsApp or email.

 Iara confirms that she has written down her number and will add it to her contacts.

Éric thanks, Remembering that the goal is to open and maintain this dialogue.

2. Complements sent by WhatsApp after the meeting

After the meeting, Éric sent two messages on the same two topics.

2.1. 'Attitudinal barriers'

He gently insisted on the importance of the notion of attitudinal barriers, already present in the disability law in Brazil. He expressed his concern that this clause be well preserved, or even reinforced, in the future law that will bring together the 220 Existing texts. He pointed out that, when carrying out such a renovation, There may be a temptation to suppress certain details that are misunderstood or considered secondary by some, when in fact, for autistic people, people with Down syndrome and other audiences, Attitudinal barriers are an extremely important point, truly crucial.

The impact of social attitudes is decisive: Often these are barriers (incomprehension, confusion, Stereotypes, Lack of social flexibility, rejection...) which constitute the main obstacle to the real inclusion of these categories of people.

He explained that the legal recognition of these attitudinal barriers in current Brazilian legislation is one of the greatest assets of this law for all people with disabilities, especially for autistic people, people with Down syndrome and other groups particularly exposed to the consequences of social attitudes. Therefore, Requested, with insistence and respect, that notion be well preserved, or even developed, in the new text, and not relegated or diluted.

2.2. 'Accessibility for autistic people with disabilities'

In addition, He recalled that he had already addressed the notion of accessibility for autistic people with disabilities during the meeting, but he wanted to take it back, whereas this point remains often overlooked, both in Brazil and internationally. He insisted that the new text of the law explicitly mention accessibility adapted to each group, especially to autistic people, with Down syndrome and psychosocial disability. He specified that, for autistic people, Accessibility must be thought of first of all in terms of the great difficulties of communication and social relationships, while for other groups, such as those with Down syndrome, other aspects may have greater weight.

He stressed that it is essential not to reduce accessibility only to its sensory dimension: although this aspect is important, Not the only one, Not even the most characteristic, depending on the situation.

In the end, recalled that the consideration of these specificities is still largely ignored, even in advanced countries, when in fact it is a key to the full and effective participation of autistic people, with Down syndrome and other vulnerable groups.

In the end, recalled that Brazil was a pioneer in introducing the notion of attitudinal barriers in its legislation, and that this makes the country an example for other states: preserve, Reinforcing and making explicit these notions in the new law would be a strong message and a breakthrough that could inspire other countries.